The Journal Times Online - Racine, Wisconsin

Posted by: Sassa on June 9, 2009 7:15PM CST Outlaw truancy and make the fines huge or community service. Cutting grass, etc. The teachers are ok and you can now pick your school so don't say anything about segregation. The kids have to learn somehow that they are responsible for their actions. Totally. Have a tech school where the underachievers can go. Punish them and embarrass them. Make it expensive to do wrong. (for instance I don't drive drunk because I can't afford the fine or the increase in insurance. Yes I would love to live on the edge but I can't afford it.).

Posted by: Sassa on June 9, 2009 7:19PM CST Also I have heard the principals tell the teachers the students MUST pass their exams so they are accrediated. So the tests are rigged to allow all to pass and the school looks good. That I don't know how to fix. Maybe just keep teaching the kids and hope for the best. The kids that go to school, that is.

Posted by: DobberDeeDee on June 9, 2009 8:40PM CST “What do I do with my kid for the next three months?” Is THAT the reason you want to have year round school? If so, you should know that it is the WRONG reason. Schools are not there for the convenience of the parents, and they are not babysitters. One can make a case for year round schools, but the case must be educationally sound, not just a convenience. This is where we get in trouble in this country.......we don't think things through before we set policy. I hope you realize that if we do indeed go to year round schools and add 2 or 3 months to the school calendar, there will need to be a proportionate pay raise for all the teachers. Who is going to pay for that?

Posted by: Bottom Line on June 9, 2009 10:32PM CST The remaining wealthy.

Posted by: Tookie on June 10, 2009 12:00AM CST How about we give the schools back to the parents? That would help. I have nothing good to say about our schools as they are now. We owe our children more. We have failed them in this regard. Gov schools don't care to educate your kids they have other plans for them. The kids that succeed do so INSPITE of schools.

Posted by: Abraxsas on June 10, 2009 6:27AM CST Give the schools back to the parents? You must live a very sheltered existence. Most parents could not care less about schools and the attitude is reflected in their kids. Parents have fits if kids are given homework and won't participate in anything having to do with the school. PTA's generally have one real participating parent to fifty who pay the five bucks to join and are never seen or heard from again. No matter how much dedication and effort the teachers put into their classrooms it is an uphill battle against the apathy shown by the parents. Of course there are a couple "know it all" parents who have all the answers and, of course, none of the responsibility! And guess what, the only involvement those "know it all" parents are likely to have is right here, on the blogs!

Posted by: Tookie on June 10, 2009 8:25AM CST You must make a living at RUSD the contempt for parents is so obvious. five days a week for 12yrs and the kids still graduate w/o being able to read and write! oh oh it's the parents fault. I'm soooo sick of rusd blaming parents, kids, lack of $ for not teaching! I thought they were experts?, trained, educated, blah,blah,blah.... Children succeed INSPITE of schools. take the government out of the schools and put the responsibiliy back where it belongs WITH THE PARENTS If they fail ,they will have to answer to thier children.

Posted by: Abraxsas on June 10, 2009 8:40AM CST Sorry, no I don't make my living @ RUSD. But I had two kids through it, one is now PhD. I was always appalled at, and ashamed of the attitude of the other parents. From the response that you post here I think that it is very likely that you fit into the "know it all, do nothing" category, as any parent who has involvement knows what I've posted is true.

Posted by: Tookie on June 10, 2009 9:13AM CST O.K. put me in the know it all,do nothing category. I'll put you in the " I think I'm better than everyone else category."

Posted by: DobberDeeDee on June 10, 2009 12:22PM CST Ten Things to Improve Our Education System: 1. Get the principals out of their offices and into the halls and classrooms. Make sure they spend at least 1/2 of their time this way. Anyone stuck behind their computer gets the ax. 2. Divide children into classes by ability, and challenge each level with a curricculum rigorous for that level. Parents don't get any input into this process. 3. Completely eliminate all district-related teacher improvement classes. If they want teachers to learn something new, develop a class in conjunction with a local university and let the university offer it. RUSD should then pay for that class. 4. Allow for removal of disruptive students. It's fine to say that the teachers should be able to handle them.....but some kids just can't be "handled." Let the administration figure out how to do this. They should earn their pay somehow. 5. Better record-keeping. The RJT ran an article about attendance taking in RUSD that was appalling. What, you can't even keep track of who's in school???? WTH? 6. Concentrate on core subjects. Reading, math, science, language, (including foreign), history, computer science, geography. Add in art and music for electives. Forget all the rest of the crap. Including social studies. 7. Go back to rigorous grading. My neice graduated from college a couple of years ago, and 90% of the students graduated WITH HONORS. Yeah, right. 8. Make sure that all students have physical activity EVERY day. It's good for the brain. 9. Get rid of the middle schools, and move the 9th grade back down to the junior high. This will eliminate crowding in the high schools, and will give the 9th graders less opportunity to fool around in high school, before they are ready to interact with drug-dealing 18 year olds. 10. Make the high schools smaller. Make all the schools smaller. Go back to schools in the neighborhoods, and follow the magnet school models and curricculum in all the elementary schools. Not in any order, but some good ideas. No I am not a teacher or connected with RUSD in any way......!

Posted by: wiff2222 on June 10, 2009 6:26PM CST I am a parent in this district and I do have a place to say how my child should be educated. Divide by level (bull) I am the parent of 2 LD students has nothing to do with the abililty to learn but all to do with a severe speech disability to be understood. If allowed to write or type my kids are as bright as yours. But let us not put the teaching staff out by having to do a little extra work As far disruptive students , how about get to the bottom of why the disruption in the first place. It is easier to always believe the precious little darling that has learned to BS people.You want to eliminate crap like social studies but it is part of learning history.Get rid of foreign language.I will never use a foreign language,why should I have learned it.Been out of school 26 years never left se wis. why would I have needed French or German or Latin.. And what to do with little Joey all summer how about a list of daily chores or a summer job or a trip to the library to read a book . Yes my kids are made to do all of the above to help retain the education they kinda recieve 180 days a school yesr

Posted by: DobberDeeDee on June 10, 2009 8:09PM CST I did not ever have any children, so I don't really have a dog in this fight. I did, however, attend public school myself, so I speak from that experience. A teacher's job is to TEACH, not to be a social worker and get to the bottom of "why the disruption in the first place." Every time a teacher has to do that, it takes time away from instruction of the students who are there to LEARN. You study foreign language partly to learn more about the language you use everyday. It is, in addition to new knowledge, mentally stimulating. You probably don't use calculus every day either, but it helped you to learn how to learn. I doubt you learned much foreign language since you apparently have so much trouble with your native tongue. And I can't fathom a soul being so proud of never leaving south east Wisconsin. I'm thinking this post might be a joke?? Hope so.

Posted by: DobberDeeDee on June 10, 2009 9:01PM CST And, wiff222, wouldn't you rather have your offspring taught by people who are specialists in their type of learning disabilty? And don't you think that people who have studied teaching and learning for several years are better able to decide where to place students (for their own good) than either the students themselves or the parents?

Posted by: Tookie on June 10, 2009 10:20PM CST well, my experience with rusd and thier army of 'change agents' is extensive and I have nothing good to say about our schools , Parent's who are concerned about thier children's curriculum,etc. are DISCORAGED from getting involved at every level. Battles wage in courtrooms across the country with parent's who are concerned enough to fight. But rusd will lie, and resourt to deciet to convince parents that they are alone in thier concerns. It's not THIER fault, it's the uncontrollable kids, it's idiot parents, there's just not enough $,etc, etc. And don't get me started on the crap they shovel down our kids throats cloaked as 'curriculum'! No, burn it to the ground along with any teacher that refears to themselves as an 'agents of change' and start over with some of ddd's ideas I'm fine with that.

Posted by: Tookie on June 10, 2009 10:42PM CST wiff2222, why would a speech impediment be called a learning disability? I know someone with a speech impediment but no one would say he had a learning disabiliy, He's way too smart, Sorry for the personal question don't feel obliged to answer I'm just curious.

Posted by: wiff2222 on June 11, 2009 7:27PM CST dodderdeedee--seeing how you never had any children you are right it is not your fight.You are also right it is the teacher's job to teach THAN TEACH I never said it was the teacher's job to get to the bottom of the disruotive behavior because we all know that they are SOOOOOO over worked than send to the principal or social worker but don't assume that it is a behavior that justifies complete removal from the class. And as far as not leaving SE Wisconsin I am not ashamed of that and why should I be. And no I never had calculas either but that doesn't mean I don't understand how to do basic math which I do use every day. And seeing how you never had children I can safely say you have no clue with all of your foreign language and calculas as to what it takes to making the best choices that fit my children and I DO NOT NEED A PHD FOR THAT for I live 24 hrs a day,7days a week,365 days with my children and know what works best for them.I am a parent in the schools 180 days to see exactly whats is going on.There is nothing wrong with my native tonge.You apparently have nothing better to do than worry about issues that don't concern you.

Posted by: MauriceH. on June 11, 2009 7:33PM CST Having had kids at all grade levels in Racine and Kenosha I have to say that I've had mostly positive experiences in Unified and in Kenosha public schools - and some excellent principals who do spend most of their time in the halls and classrooms and are very involved in what goes on in the building. Some dedicated and caring teachers, too. Are there some employees who you wish would do things differently? Sure, but hey - thats part of the learning process for kids, too. Overall - based on my experiences - I feel Unified administrators and teachers get a bad rap. I am sure I will get railed on in the bloggerland and called some kind of "liberal commie" or "teachers union sympathizer" or something; but hey we all see the same stuff - just through different eyes. I call it how I see it.

Posted by: santyclaus on June 11, 2009 8:38PM CST History lesson here. The reason we have June to August off is because of our past Agrarian Society. When kids had to work on the farm. There aren't many jobs for the kids now-a-days and in recent history June to August has proven to be retention loss time. As mentioned in prior statements, September to October is catch up time with WKCE soon to follow. I am all for year round. Other issues obviously need to be cleaned up as well. Just my point on the topic.

Posted by: wiff2222 on June 11, 2009 8:46PM CST to Tookie My son's speech problem was so bad in the early informative years the teacher could not figure out how to get him to reply to the questions that those years were spent sitting and watching.So he got bored and did not pay attention and fell behind and with out the speech he could not answer questions so the teacher assumed he did not know the material . So he was marked as a learning disability because he could not speak his point. So through the RUSD system he finally got a wonderful staff (with the most credit going to the speech therapist) who worked with him and got him up to speed academically and by high school pulled a 3.0=3.5.gpa all 4 years had a job (sometimes 2) was part of the drama dept.and graduated on 6/7/09 But alot of his early staff blew him off thinking that without speech a person could not function in life.

Posted by: Tookie on June 11, 2009 10:41PM CST aahhh I see, it's hard to diagnose things correctly when children are so young. I'm glad to hear he has done so well,

Posted by: DobberDeeDee on June 11, 2009 11:09PM CST Hi Maurice - I agree with you....believe it or not. I think there are lots of dedicated teachers out there. My sister is one of them. And as a student myself, I must say that I had many inspiring and dedicated teachers as role models. As a taxpayer, I feel that if we are thinking of going to year-round school, which is what this blog is intended to address, then I think we need to figure out what we hope achieve with a year-round setting, and how we are going to pay for it. I guess I'm the only one with enough time to come up with the 10 ways to improve public education. Nobody else up to the challenge?

Posted by: Tookie on June 11, 2009 11:26PM CST They get a bad rap because they charge us 10,000 dollars a year per student and turn them out (if they make it thru the drugs, violence, pediphiles etc.) with a medioce education compared with other countries with whom they will have to compete. That is a HUGE failure.

Posted by: Tookie on June 12, 2009 12:43AM CST 1. Keep schools open 24/7, keep it fully staffed, this sovles the overcrowding and keeps jobs, 2. Require parents be held accountable for students fufilling required hours. Since children learn everyhour on the hour this will give teachers more oppurtunity to take advantage of 'teaching moments', and with the overcrowding not a issue teachers will be better able to spot needs the child has more clearly. 3. Hire the A-team or it's equivilent to patrol the grounds. K-9's too. This insures us and the kids, teachers are safe from drug addicted burglarers/rapeist/crazies running thru the halls., 4.Hire local bands to play during recess once a week. 5.Teach ONLY acedemic subjects I personally don't care as long as they are acedemic and FACT based 6. Use only PROVEN teaching techqniues 7.Schools should NEVER EVER meddle in a students medical issues other than reporting abuse,crimes, and notifing parents of any illnesses or injuies. 8.I hear the lunches have improved. so just add more ice cream. 9.Continuously and vigorisly fight government intrution 10.The system in place now can not be sucsessfull it has proven itself a failure.Strip it to it's bones and start over with minimal if any government intrutions. I have faith that parents DO very deeply care to give thier kids an education and will do just fine even better without the damaging effects we see now. P.s. My spelling has been wonky the last couple post I apologize (Insomnis)

Posted by: Tookie on June 12, 2009 12:57AM CST (insomia)

Posted by: Tookie on June 12, 2009 1:27AM CST I appreciate teachers and I want them to be recognized by being ranked #1 , So far this 'system' dispite thier dedication and hard work has failed them the oppurtunity.

Posted by: time2blog on June 12, 2009 7:07AM CST 1) Vouchers, vouchers, vouchers, let the customer decide who is providing the the product you desire. If public schools lose out on $$$$ they may decide to focus energy on pleasing taxpayers rather than thugs and crackhouse residents. 2) Remove violent repeat offenders. Children who disturb learning need a place to go so teaching can have a chance to occur. Northstar is a push for all ED/LD children to be in a regular ed. classroom -the exact opposite of what is best for all involved. School is one big stage for emotionally disturbed kids. They looooooove an audience of 28. 3) Monitor instructional minutes spent in direct instruction on core subjects, monitor minutes spent on other nonessentials. 4) If a teacher is known to be ineffective - do what you need to do to battle the union to protect future children from year after year of bad teaching. 5) If a principal is widely known to be a menace to society, do not give him a large promotion to central office, get rid of him. 6) Quit spending money on new reading programs, it is from the instruction that kids learn , not shiny new pictures. 7) Call a spade a spade. If a child fails the year - keep that child back. Stop lying to the child, the parent, and the community. 8) Stop grade inflation. Let parents of elementary kids see an F or a D. Many parents have decided that "M" is for marvelous. How many people know that D's and F's at the elementary level are illegal and will not show up in the system? Dr. Hicks implemented this as part of his own "No Taxpayer Left Aware" program. 9) Have a Dean of discipline at each school. Have teachers teaching all the time and not just in between crises. 10) Teach kids that education is a privilege everywhere else in the world and their entitlement mentality is wrong and does not help them succeed.

Posted by: DobberDeeDee on June 12, 2009 8:41AM CST time2blog - excellent list, and I agree with all of your ideas. If you look at our two lists, everything on them is totally common sense. Tookie - you are a hoot. Love the A-Team idea, and the ice cream and the bands. I wanna go to YOUR school!

Posted by: MauriceH. on June 12, 2009 11:20AM CST In regard to the school choice program in Wisconsin: Do the people who support vouchers and private school choice agree that the schools involved in the program need to have oversight and some accountability as to whether they are actually a school and what the curriculum is? I have no problem with the choice program as a way to get different options to families for education as long as we look at it OUTSIDE of the politics and actually as an educational policy idea. Unfortunately, as with so many other issues, political ideology trumps all when discussing the school choice issue. First, do not call it "competition". No real competition exists. A public school must take all students no matter their cognitive level, disability, or emotional stability - even if they have costly special needs. A private school can take who they choose to take. To compare overall test scores of the two and hold that up as some sort of proof of better teaching methods is ridiculous. Second, why is there so much outcry about child care centers and the Wisconsin Shares program not protecting state money by being lax with oversight and supervision of day cares and child care agreements - yet schools who are involved in the so-called "choice" program have very little oversight? We all read the articles about schools that list 46 students and actually have 5 or schools that have not accounted for thousands of dollars they received from the program. Schools that list houses as addresses. The possibility for fraud and abuse in the program is huge - let's at least agree that needs to be addressed before we just write out another 10,000 vouchers. That is state money - our tax money - and if it is wasted or bilked by people or groups in the name of school choice - it needs to be addressed. Third, the actual studies have been mixed on whether students in the program perform better than students who stay in the public schools. There seems to be evidence that students and parents are more involved and happier with the school, but it has not necessarily lead to improved performance overall. There IS consensus that the program has not really lead to dramatic improvements in the public schools - which is a core argument for pro-school choicers right? Competition will lead to major reforms. The jury is still out on the benefit of the program but let's remember - it is an experiment. And let's look at it in terms of educating kids and not ideological grandstanding (government run vs. free market). Hard to do on a JT blog which is dominated by ideological horn blowing.

Posted by: MauriceH. on June 12, 2009 11:25AM CST My list has only ONE item Dobber: 1. Make sure there is a knowledgeable, innovative, and dedicated teacher in EVERY class room in EVERY school ALL the time. Figure out how to do that and that is all the reform you need.

Posted by: MauriceH. on June 12, 2009 11:28AM CST As to the time we have to make the lists Dobber - you are right - most of us are shuttling our kids to and from "inferior government-run" (someone else's words - not mine) schools. LOL.

Posted by: Attached Mommy to 4 Kiddos on June 12, 2009 12:33PM CST I think year-round schools are another way for parents to dump their children and be less-involved in their lives. Isn't it bad enough that many parents pawn off most their parental responsibilities on society...whether it is daycare, before/after school care, psychologist, psychiatrists, pediatricians, welfare, etc. It is my responsibility as a parent to use the 3 months of summer vacation to involve my children in educational activities to keep their minds in a "learning" mode. Mortar and bricks a school does not make. Children have a innate desire to learn. We should use that to our advantage as parents to nurture a desire for life-long learning so our kids realize that learning opportunities exist in all places and that they enjoy going to school, like to learn new things and have the ablity to educate themselves outside the school building. From my few years in RUSD and my interactions with current adminstration...I am happy with what I see and the ways I can get involved to be part of our children's future, not part of the problem. One other note, I work fulltime outside the house, my children are a product of daycare and I have 4 children, one of them on the autism spectrum...my life is not easy and I find ways to be involved...afterall, why else did I have kids?

Posted by: Attached Mommy to 4 Kiddos on June 12, 2009 12:48PM CST my 1. and only to improve schools is two-way parental/school communication. Communication is more than just talking, it is actions, with involved families who are in and out of the school helping with projects, fundraisers, trips, school improvements, etc, families who are involved with their children's homework, teachers responding to parental requests for help and information, principals opening up their schools and hearts to school programs and suggestions from families, parents being open about what is going on in their homes so teachers understand why Johnnie cannot stay awake during the day...we need teachers and admins who communicate when work is not being completed and suggestions for help and not meds. Not all parents are natural parents or educators and we need to remind parents how they can help their kids and how to get involved.

Posted by: Tookie on June 12, 2009 2:41PM CST It is the parents responsibility to educate thier children. Wether they choose public, private, charter, or homeschooling I trust YOU to decide what is best for YOUR child. and I would not pursume to oversee, or expect you to be accountable to anyone but your partner and your kids. Thou parents should hold these choices to account. Please do not use the excuse of irrisponsible parenting to allow the inept, corrupt government interference in parental rights. There are laws minimum but effective. and laws to protect a childs right to an education. Thax DDD , I think if we cut all the garbage and stuck to basic studies alot of the cost saved could go to keeping schools open all year as long as the kids get a break and have time to play and relax . Now that i think about it if we cut waste spending in the schools we might have enough money to build brand new, high tech, learning centers.

Posted by: DobberDeeDee on June 12, 2009 3:39PM CST OK - Maurice, either you are misinformed or intellectualy dishonest. 1. The school voucher program in Milwaukee requires particpating schools to take special needs children. If you think this is not working well, read an article by a parent who has a child in this program. http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/9360/Ten_Years_of_School_Choice_in_Milwaukee.html 2. The only real politicization of this issue is coming from the WEAC who has managed to get the number of students capped, disappointing many parents. 3. Point out to me again, where can I find statistics on how many "choice schools" are not receiving oversight? You are comparing this to the BABYSITTING SCAMS that have lately been in the news. That's just RICH! Several years back, there were a couple of schools run by the SAME TYPE of people who are now in on the babysitting scams. They were caught and brought to justice. If that's what you mean, then I know what you are talking about. And they have since cleaned that mess up. 4. There might not be any hard evidence that these schools produce better students than public schools, but there is no evidence that they produce WORSE students, and they do it for about 2/3 the price of public schools. That might be a result of free market vs. government-run, which you would like to keep out of the conversation, but sorry, it's a salient point, especially to taxpayers. As for your "list" 1. Make sure there is a knowledgeable, innovative, and dedicated teacher in EVERY class room in EVERY school ALL the time. Q. How do we do that? A. First, get rid of the unions.

Posted by: Tookie on June 12, 2009 4:02PM CST You can find loads of evidence homeschooled children outscore public students all across the boad. What? a alternative choice to the failing techniques in use now? Gee, I wonder what our ancesstors did before government controled schools.

Posted by: Attached Mommy to 4 Kiddos on June 12, 2009 7:50PM CST Tookie, effective parents "home school" their children every day.

Posted by: DobberDeeDee on June 12, 2009 10:15PM CST So, Maurice - the Babysitter scam you are always defending on this blog has just been revealed for what it really is, a wasteful $20 million boondoggle. http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2009/06/12/local_news/doc4a32cc342dd53230428564.txt

Posted by: Tookie on June 12, 2009 11:21PM CST Tear down the entire system. hire only the best of the best teachers. The change agents will worm off to another power source to feed thier need to control. Ya know I'd like to hear more teachers, Do they feel they are as effective as they could be given the system they have to work in? Are they upset that they havn't a snowballs chance in h*ll of being recognized as #1? Would they consider or even use any ideas, methods, whatever from any of these aulternative successful examples? Why haven't they in the last 23 yrs? Do they agree with the NEA's agenda? How many illiterate students will pass thru your halls next year?

Posted by: Solomon on June 15, 2009 8:27AM CST The best teachers and the best parents face the hurdle of a dysfunctional education system. The root causes of those failures and solutions are:...... 1. Massive Financial Corruption, ignore the budget report, publicly report all expenditures! ..... 2. Wholesale stigmas caused by labeling kids as inferior without helping them, stop the endless use of "programs", which only are a state control method over districts!...... 3. Grant Money, the anti-incentive, fix anything and loose the revenue! Fund schools by student count only!..... 4. Low Standards, just pass a law requiring academic & teacher standards must meet or beat the national average!...... 5. Useless Bureaucracy that feeds itself will be reduced and save money without the endless grant programs and diversions!...... 6. Political Puppets end when school boards learn to delegate to the superintendents, instead of micro-manage. WEAC must be forbidden by law from interferring at the state level and influencing existing local district contracts!

Posted by: Tookie on June 16, 2009 4:19AM CST Good list solomon.