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Liberal Tactics Part 1
Posted by: StormyKnight on July 9, 2009 at 12:30PM CST

Liberal Tactics Pt.1

Non-violent Means to an End

So how does one change the shape of a nation through non-violent means? MAHATMA GANDHI is one of the most noted for the way his peaceful protests confounded India's British occupiers. Gandhi said, "The non-violence of my conception is a more active and more real fighting against wickedness than retaliation whose very nature is to increase wickedness. I contemplate a mental and, therefore, a moral opposition to immoralities. I seek entirely to blunt the edge of the tyrant's sword, not by putting up against it a sharper-edged weapon, but by disappointing his expectation that I would be offering physical resistance." Gandhi was lucky he was going up against the British and not Hitler who would have put him to death summarily.

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said regarding peaceful protests, “One method is that of acquiescence. There are those individuals who feel that the only way to deal with their oppression is to resign themselves to the fate of oppression. There are those who surrender and find themselves becoming conditioned to things as they are. They feel that it is better to live with these things than to go through the ordeals of changing the old order to the new order. There was a man who lived in one of the Negro communities in Atlanta some years ago; he used to play his guitar and sing various songs, and one day he was heard singing a song that went something like this: "Been down so long that down don't bother me." I guess he had achieved a level of freedom- a freedom of exhaustion. He had given up the struggle.

So this is the method of acquiescence- but it is not the way. It may be the easy way at times, but it is not the moral way and it is not the courageous way; it is a cowardly way for the individual who adjusts to an evil system, and he must take some of the responsibility for the perpetuation of the unjust system.”

So fighting back physically, while cathartic at best and deadly at worst, as everyone has heard at least once, violence never solves anything…..war being excluded. War establishes borders, protects a country and stops tyrants like Hitler who do not respond to reason.  Giving in, or acquiescence, does not defend the rights of the individual nor does it stop a problem. When one gives up, the threat is free to take total control as it is not hindered by truth, righteousness or reason.

In recent times we have seen peaceful tax protests in which all sides of the political spectrum have been participating. Unlike protests of the 1960s which often broke out in violence and resulting in bloodshed, there have been no reports of violence at Tea Parties held from one coast to the other.  But what these protestors may or may not know is they have just engaged an enemy in a non-violent war; a war for the very ideals that this country stands for and one which reaches far beyond the ideology of just taxes.

In a 1972 interview in Playboy magazine, Saul Alinksy [self proclaimed radical for social and political “change”] was asked, “The assumption behind the Administration's Silent Majority thesis is that most of the middle class is inherently conservative. How can even the most skillful organizational tactics unite them in support of your radical goals?” Alinsky responded, “Conservative? That's a crock of cr*p. Right now they're nowhere. But they can and will go either of two ways in the coming years -- to a native American fascism or toward radical social change. Right now they're frozen, festering in apathy, leading what Thoreau called "lives of quiet desperation:" They're oppressed by taxation and inflation, poisoned by pollution, terrorized by urban crime, frightened by the new youth culture, baffled by the computerized world around them. They've worked all their lives to get their own little house in the suburbs, their color TV, their two cars, and now the good life seems to have turned to ashes in their mouths. Their personal lives are generally unfulfilling, their jobs unsatisfying, they've succumbed to tranquilizers and pep pills, they drown their anxieties in alcohol, they feel trapped in long term endurance marriages or escape into guilt-ridden divorces. They're losing their kids and they're losing their dreams. They're alienated, depersonalized, without any feeling of participation in the political process, and they feel rejected and hopeless. Their utopia of status and security has become a tacky-tacky suburb, their split-levels have sprouted prison bars and their disillusionment is becoming terminal.

They're the first to live in a total mass-media-oriented world, and every night when they turn on the TV and the news comes on, they see the almost unbelievable hypocrisy and deceit and even outright idiocy of our national leaders and the corruption and disintegration of all our institutions, from the police and courts to the White House itself. Their society appears to be crumbling and they see themselves as no more than small failures within the larger failure. All their old values seem to have deserted them, leaving them rudderless in a sea of social chaos. Believe me, this is good organizational material.

The despair is there; now it's up to us to go in and rub raw the sores of discontent, galvanize them for radical social change. We'll give them a way to participate in the democratic process, a way to exercise their rights as citizens and strike back at the establishment that oppresses them, instead of giving in to apathy. We'll start with specific issues -- taxes, jobs, consumer problems, pollution -- and from there move on to the larger issues: pollution in the Pentagon and the Congress and the board rooms of the mega corporations. Once you organize people, they'll keep advancing from issue to issue toward the ultimate objective: people power. We'll not only give them a cause, we'll make life god**mn exciting for them again -- life instead of existence. We'll turn them on.”

Alinsky has had great influence in the American culture and bases his tactics of a non-violent change to the American political and social systems on the model set forth by Italian Communist, Antonio Gramsci. Gramsci [pronounced grom-she] believed that by tearing down the old order of things goals could be achieved by eliminating moral absolutes found in the world’s religions, most notably the Christian religion. Once moral barriers are broken down a new set of absolutes replaces the old order from politics to religion to cultural and moral values.

 

 OLD PARADIGM

NEW PARADIGM

Beliefs

 Based on Bible

 Blend of earth-centered religions

Culture

 Western individualism

 Global solidarity

Values

 Based on Bible

 Based on human idealism

Morals

 Moral boundaries

  Sensual freedom

Rights

  Personal freedom

  Social controls

Economy

  Free enterprise

 Socialist collective

Government

 By the people

 By those who control the masses

 

 

The thrust of Alinksy’s plan is currently being achieved through non-violent means in the form of community organizers and organizations such as ACORN whose goal is to change the world from what it is to what they believe it should be. The question remains as to who gives them the right to moral superiority over the rest of the masses? On page three of Alinsky’s book, “Rules for Radicals”, Alinsky asserts, “In this book we are concerned with how to create mass organizations to seize power and give it to the people; to realize the democratic dream of equality, justice, peace.... "Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.' This means revolution."

To meet this challenge, the organizer sets forth to generate a consensus by sitting down with people on both sides of an issue. The organizer creates chaos between the two sides, provides guidance toward consensus and leaves the participants almost jubilant in their new found understanding. What really happens is each side has compromised their principles believing that they have traded them for a new, higher morality.

Dr. Robert Klench describes the process as Total Quality Management. "Total Quality Management [TQM] is based upon the Hegelian dialectic, invented by Georg Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel, a transformational Marxist social psychologist. Briefly, the Hegelian dialectic process works like this: a diverse group of people (in the church, this is a mixture of believers (thesis) and unbelievers (antithesis), gather in a facilitated meeting (with a trained facilitator/teacher/group leader/change agent), using group dynamics (peer pressure), to discuss a social issue (or dialogue the Word of God), and reach a pre-determined outcome (consensus, compromise, or synthesis). 

“When the Word of God is dialogued (as opposed to being taught didactically) between believers and unbelievers... and consensus is reached – agreement that all are comfortable with – then the message of God's Word has been watered down... and the participants have been conditioned to accept (and even celebrate) their compromise (synthesis).  The new synthesis becomes the starting point (thesis) for the next meeting, and the process of continual change (innovation) continues. 

"The fear of alienation from the group is the pressure that prevents an individual from standing firm for the truth of the Word of God, and such a one usually remains silent (self-editing).  The fear of man (rejection) overrides the fear of God. The end result is a 'paradigm shift' in how one processes factual information."

To find evidence that these practices are alive and well and being utilized today one only needs to look to the most recent Democratic convention. Saul Alinsky states in his book, “Rules for Radicals (1971)”, “As an organizer I start from where the world is, as it is, not as I would like it to be. That we accept the world as it is does not in any sense weaken our desire to change it into what we believe it should be - it is necessary to begin where the world is if we are going to change it to what we think it should be. That means working in the system.”

 

At the 2008 Democratic convention Michelle Obama said in her speech, “'Barack stood up that day,' talking about a visit to Chicago neighborhoods, 'and spoke words that have stayed with me ever since. He talked about 'The world as it is' and 'The world as it should be…' And, 'All of us driven by a simple belief that the world as it is just won't do – that we have an obligation to fight for the world as it should be."

 

In the August 31st, 2008 edition of the Boston Globe, L. David Alinsky (son of Saul) had this to say about the Democratic convention:

All the elements were present: the individual stories told by real people of their situations and hardships, the packed-to-the rafters crowd, the crowd's chanting of key phrases and names, the action on the spot of texting and phoning to show instant support and commitment to jump into the political battle, the rallying selections of music, the setting of the agenda by the power people. The Democratic National Convention had all the elements of the perfectly organized event, Saul Alinsky style.

Barack Obama's training in Chicago by the great community organizers is showing its effectiveness. It is an amazingly powerful format, and the method of my late father always works to get the message out and get the supporters on board. When executed meticulously and thoughtfully, it is a powerful strategy for initiating change and making it really happen. Obama learned his lesson well.

I am proud to see that my father's model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008. It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday.

L. DAVID ALINSKY

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(41) Comments
Posted by: MC on July 9, 2009 12:54PM CST
Why is it only those on the right can see this when it is blattently true and in our faces right now!? No bf, this is not conspiracy thinking - this IS reality, something you won't accept as true. Wise up.

Posted by: ButtonBoy on July 9, 2009 1:11PM CST
Very interesting post. When you've got Son of Alinsky recognizing and endorsing The One's use of his father's tactics, it makes it a lot harder for liberals to brush it off as conspiracy. If only the press would provide some enlightenment as to just what BHO was up to during his college years and his early years in Chicago, we could put a more complete picture together.

What I'd like to know is, if all of this is so noble, why don't they just come out and tell everyone they're being guided by these rules? If they think it's something to be embraced by the masses, why are they hiding their intentions?

Posted by: DobberDeeDee on July 9, 2009 1:15PM CST
Excellent article, SK...this gives us lots to think about. I see how this all fits in to the Obamamania that was present for a while.

The problem that the Alinsky method faces is that it is REALLY hard to sustain the engagment of the masses. You can repeat over and over again that everything is OK (like the Administration likes to say about their overspending) but you can't fool most Americans most of the time.

Cracks are already beginning to appear in their "crowd control"...I think, from an unlikely source - the liberal press, who are getting pretty fed up with being taken for granted, and with all the secrecy in this admin.

Posted by: algernon on July 9, 2009 1:18PM CST
Stormy, You are a jewel to print this here. I wonder if many people really KNOW what is going on. Who Saul Alinsky was? And still is!

I asked on these blogs before if somebody would please get this information out there about Saul Alinsky, and also Cloward-Piven. Thank you, thank you. I hope the information spreads.

I will say that many folks are aware, and are not so apt to take the changing of our country to socialism-communisim sitting on there hands. Many have armed themselves already. Another civil war? Maybe.

Posted by: Bigfoot on July 9, 2009 3:19PM CST
SK --what a great blog! I really and heartily applaud you for your obvoius hard work, your extensive reading, and your the time it must have taken to put togethre such a well-written and well-explained argument! I think it bares repeating and that everyone else who reads this should realize the great effort and time and thought put into this piece. I think you have a talent that shows here and you could probably cash in on this (figuratively speaking) if you could show your leaders this piece. I'm sure there are people out there (elected officials, perhaps Rep. Party big shots and the like) who could see how your talent has potential in the upcoming elections. I would recommend sending this out to those people, and putting this on other, larger blogs and political sites. YOu have done a service to your fellow conservatives and have , I am sure, opened their eyes to some things they didn't know, in thier political niavety, even existed (except for algemon who also keeps mentioning Cloward-Piven.)

You are definitely a worthy opponent and your fellow bloggers here could learn more than just history from you. You could also teach them maturity, civility, logical disertation, and honest--all sadly lacking in many of them! Keep up the good work and I shall add more comments later when I have time. But for now, thank you once again for your time, effort, and talent!


Posted by: algernon on July 9, 2009 3:27PM CST
I just thought of something. Everyone knows the housing market killed our economy and Fannie and Freddie were government owned banks. I'm wondering if Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and even Bill Clinton are Alinsky diciples? All three-when you listen to them-use the dialectic. I have noticed that for years. Anyway, the sub-prime loans started under Bill Clinton and innocent George Bush gets the bame. Obama: "We have inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression".


Posted by: Bigfoot on July 9, 2009 3:34PM CST
for those of you unfamiliar with the Cloward-Priven strategy, here's an explanation from Alex Jones' Infowars.com:

Obama, the Cloward-Piven Strategy, and the New World Order
Text size
Kurt Nimmo
Infowars
March 10, 2009




“Barack Obama is Destroying Our Economy on Purpose,” an interview with author James Simpson.


On March 9, Brannon Howse of Worldview Radio interviewed author James Simpson. Entitled “Barack Obama is Destroying Our Economy on Purpose,” Howse’s interview of Simpson concentrated on Columbia University professors Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven who wrote an article in 1966 for The Nation magazine. “The article was published on May 2, 1966 and laid out what is now known as the ‘Cloward-Piven Strategy’. The plan calls for the destruction of capitalism in America by swelling the welfare rolls to the point of collapsing our economy and then implementing socialism by nationalizing many private institutions,” explains a synopsis on the Worldview Radio website. “Cloward and Piven studied Saul Alinsky just like Hillary Clinton and President Obama.”

Alinsky is considered to be the founder of modern community organizing in America. Alinsky’s teachings influenced Obama early in his career as a community organizer on the far South Side of Chicago. Obama worked for Gerald Kellman’s Developing Communities Project where he learned and taught Alinsky’s methods for community organizing. Obama would later work for ACORN (the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.

According to Sol Stern of the Manhattan Institute, ACORN is a modern successor of the radical 1960’s “New Left” and holds a “1960’s-bred agenda of anti-capitalism” to be implemented through “undisguised authoritarian socialism.”




“This new and complete Revolution we contemplate can be defined in a very few words. It is … outright world-socialism, scientifically planned and directed,” H.G. Wells wrote in The New World Order.


It is a brand of “undisguised authoritarian socialism” supported by the establishment. As the Union News reported last October, ACORN receives funding from the Robin Hood Foundation, a charity supported — to the tune $9,859,453 — by the globalist George Soros and his Soros Fund Charitable Foundation.

“Soros is the visible side of a vast and nasty secret network of private financial interests, controlled by the leading aristocratic and royal families of Europe, centered in the British House of Windsor,” writes William Engdahl. According to Engdahl, Soros “is part of a tightly knit financial mafia — ‘mafia,’ in the sense of a closed masonic-like fraternity of families pursuing common aims.”

As Antony Sutton documented ( Wall Street & the Bolshevik Revolution), the very fount of “authoritarian socialism” was created and lavishly funded by the bankers. “The involvement of the Rockefellers with their supposed blood enemies, the Communists, dates back to the Bolshevik Revolution,” notes Gary Allen (None Dare Call it Conspiracy, chapter 6). “The Federal Reserve-CFR insiders began pushing to open up Communist Russia to U.S. traders soon after the revolution.”

In addition, the bankers have supported “communism” in the United States. Considering this, it should come as no surprise the anti-capitalist “Cloward-Piven Strategy” was published by The Nation, a magazine with a well-documented connection to the CIA. As researcher Bob Feldman notes, The Nation is connected to the National Endowment for Democracy, a CIA front group involved in overthrowing countries around the world by way of “color revolution.” The CIA has a history of collaboration with the Ford Foundation (see James Petras: “The Ford Foundation and the CIA: A documented case of philanthropic collaboration with the Secret Police”).


A d v e r t i s e m e n t

In 1954, Rowan Gaither of the Ford Foundation told Reese Commission investigator Norman Dodd that “the directives under which we operate is that we shall use our grant making power to alter life in the United States so that we can comfortably be merged with the Soviet Union.”

This merging with the Soviet Union (or more accurately, “authoritarian socialism”) has nothing to do with the sort of communism taught in school textbooks — a dictatorship of the proletariat and the workers — but rather it is an authoritarian control system engineered by the bankers and the global elite. “This new and complete Revolution we contemplate can be defined in a very few words. It is … outright world-socialism, scientifically planned and directed,” H.G. Wells wrote in The New World Order.

It is a mistake to believe the Cloward-Piven Strategy is scheme cooked up by academic Marxists of “New Left” bent dedicated to the destruction of capitalism in the name of some sort of vaguely defined humanitarianism. In fact, “the destruction of capitalism in America by swelling the welfare rolls to the point of collapsing our economy and then implementing socialism by nationalizing many private institutions” is a meticulous plan on the part of the global elite to consolidate power and destroy all opposition.

It has nothing to do with liberating the proletariat but rather subjecting them to banker engineered “world-socialism, scientifically planned and directed” and devised to transform the planet into a banker dominated high-tech prison gulag.

Posted by: Huck Finn on July 9, 2009 4:36PM CST
"Why is it only those on the right can see this when it is blattently true and in our faces right now!?"

Why is it that the Right couldn't see it hen Bush and cronies were the ones doing it?

Posted by: Tookie on July 9, 2009 6:24PM CST
Huck is right! At this point does it really matter? This boat has sailed, Socialism here we come. Did anyone mention Barack's father and mentor were marxist/communist? How many generations of Marxst do the ivy leage colleges have to produce before we reap the harvest? By the time enough people wake up to this threat if they see it at all will we react like Hondouras? Ya think Germany or France will help us overthrow a tyrannt? If our forefather's crawled out of thier graves they would charge our government officials with treason and hang them. Never forget ruby ridge, waco, and the Brown family. We KNOW about acorn meddleing in elections and WHO benifited but acorn is still around and the cheaters STILL in office. They will be next election too.

Posted by: Bottom Line on July 9, 2009 8:25PM CST
Good article Storm.

Posted by: roadmixer on July 9, 2009 9:23PM CST
lets fight for a country that should be, not a world. how about us , the US.

Posted by: Tookie on July 9, 2009 9:44PM CST
Barack just shrugged his shoulder's at Iran;s people calling for democracy/freedom, He condemned an entire nation Honduras for fighting for democracy/freedom. I'm sure there are more examples of Barack and Co. not wanting to hear complaining about our stupid freedoms. he's thinking : this to shall pass...

Posted by: Ruth on July 9, 2009 9:55PM CST
Mahatma Gandhi, as you know, walked barefoot most of the time, which produced an impressive set of calluses on his feet.

He also ate very little, which made him rather frail and with his odd diet, he suffered from bad breath.

All of these attributes made him.....



A super callused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis.

Posted by: MauriceH. on July 9, 2009 10:16PM CST
Maybe there isn't some great world-wide plot to either spread or destroy capitalism - maybe we are all just trying to make it as best we can and we develop some strong views along the way.

At times, people (in government or in the community) come along who we support and we think can produce good things for others. Then, philosophers and intellectuals rationalize this view or that view and try to organize policies for us into a "bigger picture" that makes it look like there is some plot or movement that we need to be skeptical of - or embrace.

Sometimes I think - it isn't always as deep as these complicated thesis for or against liberalism or Liberalism or conservatism or Conservatism. In all honesty - the blog post by Stormy and Bigfoot's post both confuse me. But its like looking at a terrible accident - I can't look away.

Posted by: Bottom Line on July 10, 2009 1:08AM CST
History has proven, you can't help the weak by destroying the strong. Therein lies the reason to suspect they haven't an interest in our successful capitalism. While no other Nation accomplished as much, we are reducing ourselves to following policies that failed historically, world wide.

Cloward-Piven, Saul Alinsky, and others, have been trying to undo us for years. If you read, follow history, do some research, you would realize these are not stories conservatives dreamt up. They are strategies that have been forwarded and perfected, because for unknown reasons, some can't accept that our model of society was better than the oppressive, rank, controlling, models of other countries.

BTW, I don't think it is deep at all, just very devious, that some would deny the great foundation we were fortunate to be born on, be removed, before our children and grandchildren could enjoy what could have been.

As Milt Freidman said, if you want the proof, it has always been there. People voting with their feet. Trying to get to the USA, not trying to escape it. Could we improve it, always, and we have. Yet the changes being made today are wholesale changes that deny the essence of our success. Confiscating what has been earned, and creating a government run everything. Sounds a lot like all the countries people fled. Where did they go? The USA.

Posted by: paradigm on July 10, 2009 9:16AM CST
Great post, Stormy. When you read Alinsky's diatribe, about the state of America's people, it would seem that he is sympathetic to the horrible blight of these confused, weary and frightened citizens. That is until you read on. What is the gentle and comforting solution (CHANGE) that Saul Alinsky has for us Americans? Ah, the comforts of global socialism/communism. Translation? Tyranical slavery! Hey, there's a solution that should make us Americans feel more secure. Translate that alittle further? EVIL, right to the core. As Gandhi said, "fighting against wickedness".

Posted by: Poguey on July 10, 2009 9:43AM CST
Excellent, EXCELLENT post. I'll second BF's applause. Looking forward to Part 2.

Now, I'll also acknowledge Maurice's concern here. Those in the minority (political, that is) at any given time do have a tendency to overblow every little thing that doesn't go their way as being some sort of radical change, so I think that's something we need to be aware of and sensitve to.

That having been said, though, I do disagree with Maurice that what we're seeing is people just trying to make capitalism the best it can be. It looks to me more like "death by a thousand cuts." Why do I say that? Because the current state of affairs is orders of magnitude different--contrary--to American traditions, and because I take Obama at his word. Maurice--the government OWNS GM, and it gave a minority stake to GM's union! By definition, that's socialism. And we're currently looking to socialize (incrementally) health insurance and later medicine. With respect to Obama, it seems to me that the revolutionary leaders always tell you in advance where they want to lead, even if people don't always believe them. Heck, Hitler wrote a book spelling it all out, and Ahmedinijad has been quite explicit as to what he would and will do to Israel given the chance. So when Obama comments that a major failing of the civil rights movement was that it didn't overcome the constitutional limitation of a constrained government, I take his at his word. And, as he so famously pointed out, his goal--not intended effect, mind you, but stated purpose--is to spread the wealth around. Heck, just the fact the he thinks there is any such thing as "the wealth" as opposed to "my wealth" or "your wealth" is collectivist.

So I recognize your concern, but I think you would have to admit that (whether they consciously or even subectively recognize it) our leaders are taking our country into waters uncharted and unchartered by our founding documents.

Posted by: MauriceH. on July 10, 2009 10:46AM CST
Why does the ultimate "goal" as these theories unfold have to be either evil or good? That is why I have a problem with political philosophy as used in having political differences - they are far more extreme than the reality.

As to socialism - I agree that the U.S. government owning GM is a form of socialism. I have argued that it is unfortunate and, hopefully, a temporary arrangement. If you will agree that health care reform - even a government offered plan for coverage - is NOT socialism.

As to the founding documents - I dunno - I think slaves in the Constitution were 3/5s of a person. Do we really want to be tied to the strict wording of such documents - or do we want them to be living documents that get interpreted and change to the times?

Posted by: Bigfoot on July 10, 2009 10:59AM CST
"It is, I think, an indisputable fact that Americans are, as Americans, the most self-conscious people in the world, and the most addicted to the belief that the other nations of the earth are in a conspiracy to under value them."

- Henry James, Hawthorne (1879)

Posted by: Bigfoot on July 10, 2009 11:09AM CST
http://www.carpenoctem.tv/cons/intro.html

Posted by: Poguey on July 10, 2009 12:11PM CST
It becomes a debate about good and evil because some of us still hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal and that we've been endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

And I thought the Constitution had been corrected on slavery long ago, no? I guess I also missed the part, though, where it was amended to provide that we now have a right to happiness, as opposed to the mere pursuit of happiness, and to health insurance (or health care for that matter) and so on and so on.

Posted by: MC on July 10, 2009 12:38PM CST
"Why is it that the Right couldn't see it hen Bush and cronies were the ones doing it?"

Anyone who thinks that the same things were being done to our Country under GWB as are being done to it today under BHO, apparently isnt clear as to what is going on.

Posted by: algernon on July 10, 2009 2:02PM CST
Excellent comments poguey! And bottomline, you nailed it! The philosophy of Alinsky which buried itself in two young men-Cloward-Piven, has been undermining our government for years.

The colleges were full of professors spewing this venom, and they wonder where the Christian Right came from. Action-Reaction?

I have no love for the far right in this country, because, to me, they are as dangerous as the far left. The only people who can save this country now are truly old fashioned democrats and old fashioned republicans. Enough of that conservative-liberal talk. When I say I am a conservative it is because I believe in fiscal conservatism-one can't spend more than he earns.

Posted by: algernon on July 10, 2009 2:48PM CST
One more thing, the constitution, written by the framers took much thought, and they didn't do it overnight. The results speak for themselves---the freedom we have enjoyed in this country, the fact that we are a nation of immigrants who came here without knowing our language, but taught themelves to speak and read English. The fact that many of these immigrants had sons and grandsons who were willing to fight and die for this country because they had been taught the tyranny suffered by their parents in other countries, most of those countries were Socialist.

Why would anyone want to change our country into something it never was, and try to fix something that isn't broken?

We have had many kinds of Presidents and when knowledge and education evolved over time some realized that slavery was wrong, and many died to fix that. But they were FREE to do just that. In other countries they would not be free to do that. Look at the Socialist dictators and how they treat their people! They are not even free enough to think much less act, and if they wanted to change the government to a free society, they would be killed.

I have never been one to believe in conspiracy theories, and I don't believe Cloward-Piven is an actual conspiracy---they simply want Socialism in this country and have used any avenue available to achieve just that.


Posted by: Bigfoot on July 10, 2009 3:18PM CST
from "The Psychology of Conspiracy Theories" by Wayne McDonald:

Successful conspiracy theories are those that to some degree empower the believer against what are perceived as external forces that he/she blames for some unpleasant or undesirable facet of their lives. In addition conspiracy theories serve to absolve the individual of some degree of self-accountability since, if the individual is being “oppressed” by some powerful conspiracy, the individual’s efforts at self-advancement will always be futile and thus become nothing more than “a waste of time.” Sadly, it seems that conspiracy theories and their advocates are now deeply engrained in the popular psyche and without prospects for their ultimate refutation.

Posted by: algernon on July 10, 2009 5:53PM CST
bigfoot, I hate to admit my ignorance here, but who is Wayne McDonald?

Posted by: Bottom Line on July 10, 2009 6:35PM CST
Acknowledging the strategy that is being implemented is hardly akin to being a conspiracy theorist.

... but if it floats your boat ... go fishin'.

Posted by: Bigfoot on July 10, 2009 7:38PM CST
fishin' is a good term for it. SK wrote an excellent piece of writing filled with conservative conspiracy granola! With writing skills like that, she should be doing better than --what does she do? security guard? pizza delivery? I dunno. This kind of propagandizing is a good skill that PR people have college educations in but seldom attain such heights of ecellence or fancy!

algemon--Wayne McDonald is just one guy who has knowledge about the psychology of conspiracy theorists. There are many others, but his explanation will do.

Maurice, I'm sorry if I perplexed you about my first entry, but let's face it, SK has written a good piece of balderdash. Nevermind the fact that anyone who buys into these theories is living in a fantasy world, for there is no way that anyone can shake them from such beliefs. You and I can spend some of our leisure time responding to these dementia, but these people are serious about their conspiracies and have a true need to be believed by others. Rational thought has no place in the mentality of the conspiracy theorist!

Posted by: Tookie on July 10, 2009 9:39PM CST
WOW Bigfoot, I did not realize until now how impressed you are with your own smarts! and I'm offended. You seem to act as if communism in america could NEVER happen, and we're all crazy for thinking so. We appreiciate and are sometimes ammused by your tenacity to 'enlighten' us with you dubious sources. But unlike the residents of LaLa Land, we in America would like to ensure it DOESN'T. a country can fall (even America) quickly, Do you secretly love dictators and in your heart of hearts want one of your own? Isn't niave to think there are NO crooked dictator wanna be's out there who would do anything to gain power over America.

Posted by: DobberDeeDee on July 10, 2009 10:14PM CST
WELL, WELL, SOME PEOPLE JUST NEVER LEARN!

Here we are, having a decent conversation about politics, and somebody just HAS to accuse the others of having "dementia".

Apparently some of us are not capable of "rational thought".

WOW - Diagnosing again! I wonder if he is licensed to write prescriptions?


BTW - Ruth, very funny... :~)

Posted by: MC on July 10, 2009 11:01PM CST
Spot on DDD, and he keeps accusing US of being condescending! Where is Huck with his kettle when we need it?

Posted by: DobberDeeDee on July 10, 2009 11:12PM CST
So Maurice, how do you like being lumped together with a blogger who thinks that the two of you together spend your leisure time responding to the dementia?

I know how you hate to be grouped togther, in a clump. Maybe this clump is so small and exclusive that it doesn't count?

Posted by: algernon on July 11, 2009 8:01AM CST
bigfoot, how do you know SK isn't college educated? And how do you know if SK is a he or a she? I think you are presumptuous when you make the statement that SK delivers pizza or might be a security guard.

I think Stormy has good writing skills in any event.

Posted by: Bigfoot on July 11, 2009 8:24AM CST
algemon--I believe SK talked about those jobs, but it's been a while. I don't know if he/she is college educated though it wouldn't surprise me, he/she sure has the talent! I was trying to say the people who have degrees in PR have to be able to write good pieces like this one, but are not as good as SK was in writing this one!

I'm not implying that Maurice thinks of these conspiracy theories as "dementia" , just pointing out to him the futility. condescend-shmondescend--big frackin' deal! People throw these ideas out there as if they are gospel and that is just as "condescending" as anything I or anyone else can say in response. "Condescend" is just the latest deflection and redirection method to hide the hypocracy.

SK-if I condescend to your superior writing skills let it stand that you deserve it! Even if these conspiracy theories are all smoke and mirrors!

Posted by: DobberDeeDee on July 11, 2009 10:43AM CST
Hi Algernon - Yes, SK has stated that s(he) is a security guard who also delivers pizza as a second job.....

But what is more important here, is that no matter what SK does for a living, or what education is involved, the essay posted here is well-written, well-organized, is easy on the eyes, due to good grammar and spelling, and contains interesting thoughts.

In short, this post does what a good blog is supposed to do. I found reading it to be a valuable use of my time, and I expect others felt the same way.

Good job - Stormy!

Posted by: algernon on July 11, 2009 2:34PM CST
One of the best blogs Stormy!

Posted by: MauriceH. on July 11, 2009 11:37PM CST
Poguey -

you state "And I thought the Constitution had been corrected on slavery long ago, no?". So - are there areas that the Constitution should be "corrected" on based on the times and events?
Should we not be tied to the strict interpretation of the document?

Posted by: Bigfoot on July 12, 2009 10:08AM CST
WOW Tookie! What incredible (as in 'without credibility') convoluted rationalizing. I'm sorry if you are offended by "my smarts" but you shouldn't be, as you obviously believe as strongly in your own "smarts" and it in no way offends me! Conservatives love to come up with that whole business about "you guys are stupid for believing...." but when your own ideas are challenged you all start crying about being offended by "condescension". (which you quickly picked up on from the whining of other--you conservatives seem to exhibit that kind of "wolfpack" mentality (is that a wolf you use as an icon?)

Ever see any of those interviews with third-graders? "What do you want to be when you grow up? I want to be the President!" I've yet to hear one say "I want to be a dictator and rule the world!" It takes a pot of conditioning and propaganda (like watching Glenn and Sean or listening to Rush or Alex everyday without any counterbalance) to get to the point where you can see a dictator behind every bush and a communist behind every tree!

SK has written an excellent piece which shows exactly how a conspiracy is like a snowball rolling down a hill, gathering more nad more snow until it hits something substantial and falls apart, revealing that, after all, it was just a lot of frozen water!

Posted by: Tookie on July 13, 2009 4:40AM CST
Bigfoot. I'm not offended by your smarts. I'm offended because instead of recognizing communism IS real and it IS a threat you just dismiss these concerns as propaganda, crazytalk, it comes off like you just dismissed our genuine concerns. you tell me to not be narrow minded, and not to try to put you in a box (fair enough) but then you turn right around and give the typical hystarical libral reaction to the word communism. Perhaps my comment was alittle harsh I apologize. I do respect you, and I have learned from you so this reaction bothered me. I didn't interpret that as a challenge to my ideas, I interpreted it as dismissive. oh,well i guess we'll disagree on this.

Posted by: Bigfoot on July 13, 2009 9:03AM CST
Thank you for an excellent post! That did more to express your feelings than the previous ones. Yes, I am dismissive of certain ideas that have very little basis in fact or reality and I do not apologize for that, for that is part of the dialectic. And I do apologize for making you think I think that you are narrow-minded because I do not think that. I am aware that there are still some "communist" thinkers out there, but they are so few and so irrelevant and marginalized that their presence can easily be dismissed. I may dismiss the communists, and the idea that they are still behind some foul plot to take over the world, but I do NOT dismiss you!

Posted by: Tookie on July 14, 2009 3:14AM CST
I wish i was more articulate. glad we cleared that up.

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